Bend it like Bentham
By BILL ERVOLINO
Like the rest of the season it capped, the S-4 finale was fast-moving, action-packed and didn’t necessarily take us where we wanted to go.
Yeah, it stretched credulity at certain key moments. And then it took us into the frigid bowels of the Orchid and totally around the bend.
As we suspected, the Oceanic Six were picked up at sea by a search ship that belonged to Penny. Also making it back to civilization: Frank Lapidus and Desmond Hume. And then there was Ben, spinning some magic wheel before turning up, in the ep’s final moments, at the funeral home in Los Angeles.
According to the “Good Morning America” promos, a total of three endings were filmed. And, after seeing John Locke in the coffin, we kinda wish they’d gone with one of the other two. (One popular spoiler making the rounds had Christian in there, instead of Locke.)
For sheer entertainment value, I thought this was a terrific episode. I loved the action, the humor and the dramatic moments. What didn’t work for me (and what pretty much ruined the evening for me) were the surprises, beginning with Ben in the basement -- I found that entire sequence pretty silly -- and ending with Locke (aka Jeremy Bentham), looking incredibly corpse-like in his stylish wooden box.
(The Bentham name was borrowed from yet another long-dead philosopher, born in England and considered a radical thinker. The real Bentham was influenced by Hume and Locke, who also influenced Austin and Rousseau.)
The “good” surprises: Charlotte hinting that she was born on the island. If we remember correctly, she was happy to see a Dharma logo (which she obviously recognized) in the episode in which she was introduced.
Was she a Dharma baby? (Her highly-pronounced accent leads us think she is not Ben’s childhood sweetheart.) And, if she was indeed born on the island, was she conceived there?
We were also pleased to see that Miles will be back next season to unravel some of the mysteries of the island’s dead, near-dead, and soon-to-be-dead.
But what of Dan Faraday? Has he outlived his usefulness? We’ll have to wait to find out. And, since his raft was filled with extras, there’s no way of guessing what became of him.
The confluence of Kate’s dream (Claire pleading with her to keep Aaron off the island) and the revelation that Locke-as-Bentham has been persuading the Six to go back, kind of feeds into the idea that Aaron will be Locke’s successor, and that the Others need the child to lead them -- picking up where Locke (Jacob’s presumed heir) left off.
BEST MOMENTS: We loved the battle royal between the 815’ers, Others and the mercenaries, culminating with a fired-up Sayid going all Iraqi on Keamy’s ass.
The bomb-on-the-boat business was a bit cliche-ish, but the aftermath made it all worthwhile. Jin dead? Maybe. Michael dead? Ditto, but he at least had the chance to redeem himself. And then there was the grand opera on board the helicopter when Sun saw what happened and went hyper-ballistic.
And there were some fun, humorous moments: James interacting with Lapidus (“Hey, Kenny Rogers...”) and the sight of Ben loading up the vault with metal while Locke watched the Orchid video. (“Metallic objects must never be placed in the vault.”)
Another nice touch: Aaron crying just as Jack told the pregnant Sun that Jin was “gone.”
We also smiled when Hurley told Sayid that he was playing chess with Mr. Eko.
And then, of course, there was the return of Walt, unrecognizable (almost) but at least back in the fold and, in the future, having an excuse for looking like a Laker.
WORST MOMENTS: Ben doing whatever Ben was doing at the Orchid. Keamy explaining the heart rate monitor to Ben as if Ben would give a hoot if people on the boat were killed. The revelation that a bullet had pierced the fuel tank of the copter. (If you grew up on action films, that means instant explosion, no?)
The much-hyped kiss between James and Kate was a letdown, as was the reunion between Penny and Des. (No, it wasn’t terrible, but it didn’t rip your heart out.)
The idea of James jumping from the copter at all, and then, somehow, winding up feet away from where Juliet was getting drunk. (Lonely woman drinking and bare-chested anti-hero? Anyone else smell STEAMY SEXUAL ENCOUNTER?
We like-like-liked Sun going over to Widmore on the street, even though that probably would never happen. What we didn’t buy, though, was that when he finally began to talk with her, she walked away. It was a nice dramatic exit, but it didn’t really make any sense.
QUESTIONS: Who’s dead and who isn’t? It would be nice if we had a clue, but we don’t. We didn’t see Jin or Michael actually die, and regular cast members are usually given better sendoffs than that.
Does Sun intend on using Desmond to get whatever it is she wants from Widmore? (As she told him, “We have common interests.” The only interest we can imagine is that she believes Jin is alive and wants to find him.)
And, while we pretty much have a grasp on what Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley and Sun are doing three years down the road, what happens off-island to Lapidus and Des?
It’s going to take a lot to convince us next season that Widmore still doesn’t want his daughter to be with Desmond after all they went through to get back together.
We were also a bit confused by the conversation between Alpert and Ben:
“What was the arrangement?”
“They help us free you and we let them off the island.”
From what we could see, the Others didn’t need any help from Kate and Sayid. And Ben’s response didn’t seem to make much sense, either. Did he know Penny’s boat was out there? Did he think they would make it home on the Kahana? Or, did he simply think they would get killed trying to go anywhere?
All this business about the time difference between the island and everything off the island never seemed to come into play during the finale, unless I missed some time-related loophole that will somehow change key events.
I’m anxious to hear what you guys thought of the episode. I found the ending a downer, a “shock” that wasn’t the least bit fun.
I don’t think we got much useful information on the Kahana mission, the assembling of Naomi, Frank, Miles, Dan and Charlotte, and why Widmore would go through so much trouble to capture Ben.
Time travel is one of my favorite sci-fi themes, but I think its kind of absurd on this show. And, even though I’ve had some fun this season, I’ve worried that the series has gone so far off course that it may never find its way back.
I didn’t hate this episode or this season -- technically it was very well done -- but I expected a little more from a finale, and some shocks that made me jump in gasp instead of one that left me with that dour feeling you get when you eat too many chips, down too much tequila, and get waylaid by too many explosions, disappearing islands and time travel.
I’ll be posting more tomorrow.
In the meantime, let’s hear what you got...
Brilliantly written blog on your personal insight of not just the finale, but the season in general. Nice work and please keep it coming.
Posted by: DSauce | May 30, 2008 at 02:30 AM
Great Posts, everyone. Lots to think about here.
The Finale.....
So many questions!
Where to Start?
-Michael was allowed to "go" [told by Christian's spirit/or Jacob manifested as Christian? "You can go now"], and was in the freighter with the C4, so looks like Michael is dead.
-Jin was on deck, running towards the stern when the C4 went off, so possibly he was thrown clear of the freighter...is Jin dead, or in the water?
-What happened to Daniel and the 5 he took in the Zodiac? The helicopter ppl didn't see the Zodiac, so does that mean Daniel et al "moved" with the island to the past? [being closer in proximity to the island at the time of moving] OR was the Zodiac in the time of the freighter, and will Daniel find Jin? [if so, how are they getting to a boat or land in the little Zodiac?]
-Charlotte was on the island before? hmmmm. This reeks of her leaving the island [maybe with her parents, who were Dharma scientists who went back to the mainland?] If she had Dharma/island memories, this could explain why she was trying to get back to the island. OR, did Charlotte leave the island without her parents at some point, and they were killed in the purge?
-How did Miles know about Charlotte being at the island before? The same way he knew who Michael was? Miles may have telepathic abilities/mind reading capabilities, as well as being a medium?
Was Miles on the island before, like Charlotte?
-I am so encouraged that Miles is still on the island! Being a medium, I see endless possibilities of Miles communicating with dead ppl from BlackRock etc, and maybe even Jacob...? [eventually]
-Locke in the coffin???? Ok, can't say I was happy about this. Been trying to figure out HOW he got to the mainland, whether he traveled [like Ben did, with fake passport to try to convince the O6 to come back?] But if so, how could he die off the island? Did he have to move the island [like Ben did] and as a result, was transported to the future? If so, was he paralyzed again, and is that why he killed himself? Did Locke lose favor with Jacob and die because the island no longer needed him alive? The question of why he's dead is bigger than how he got off the island...
-What did Ben mean that they all [O6+ Locke] had to go back to the island? Will Locke become a spirit on the island, like Christian. I'm really hoping he's not going to resurrect on the island, if he's dead...seems far-fetched, even for LOST.
-Hurley saw Taller Walt! That was interesting... I guess this is 3 yrs after the rescue, making it 2007? So Jeremy Bentham visited all of the O6 and Walt too? Did Jeremy/Locke want Walt to go back to the island? I guess no one told Walt that Michael probably died on the freighter in the explosion, but you could see it in Hurley's face, that he didn't want to tell Walt that Michael was dead.
-Does that mean Ben will tell Jack to bring Walt back with the O6 and Walt?
-Will Ben want Desmond to go back to the island too?
-If none of them were sposed to leave the island, why were they "allowed" to leave?
-Spirit-Claire visited Kate and Aaron! Why did she tell Kate not to take Aaron back to the island?? If Claire is like Christian, a manifestation of Jacob, then would Jacob want Aaron to return to the island? Is Clair a spirit who is not aligned with Jacob? Will Kate eventually decide to return to the island with Jack?
-Is Jack really going to take Locke's dead body back to the island?
-Locke's body: If Locke really hung himself, his face wouldn't look like that, and he would have ligature marks on his neck. I know the coffin was closed, but I've seen bodies before, and it wasn't too realistic...He looked kinda peaceful/normal]
-Ahh, Penny was the rescuer. Her ship was called Searcher. [I thought she was going to rescue the O6 ever since the phone call Desmond made to her...]
-Sawyer/Kate. We presume that's when Sawyer asks Kate to visit Cassidy/Clementine. Nice of Sawyer to jump off the copter and swim back to the island. He already said he wasn't leaving, and I was a bit surprised when he boarded with the rest of them...unless seeing Kate briefly made him want to go? The kiss was ok, touching. But Jack's face [ie jealousy] was what I noticed more than the kiss itself.
-THE KISS: I said to myself after the Sawyer/Kate kiss, was that it? [not that spectacular, unless DL/CC intended that kiss as a red herring...] And low and behold, the real spectacular kiss was Penny and Desmond! [which instantly made me believe that they return to the island to hide out and there are Adam/Eve]
-In the future, when Ben threatens to Widmore that he will kill Penny, now we know that Ben was thrown into the future when he moved the island, and he told Locke ["whoever moves the island, can never return"] But knowing Ben, ["I have ideas"], Will he TRY to find/return to the island with Jack et al? Will the island "let" Ben return after all?
-The island moved...to the past? Back to the Dharma age? How far back? With Locke as the leader of the Others? So Juliet, Sawyer, Miles and Charlotte, and some of the Losties [Rose, Bernard and more red shirts]are also on the island. Will any of them meet up with The Others? With Dharma?
-In Dharma of the past, Annie would still be there with young Ben? I hope we will see what happened to her. [I speculate that she and Ben were together, and she died in pregnancy]
-If the island moved to the past, and Dharma still exists, what about Ben and the Purge? Does this change the past, meaning that the Purge never occured? Or does Ben exist as a child on the island in this time?
-If we are going to see Dharma before the purge, and Locke is the leader and somehow he moves the island and is thrown off, or leaves the island; does this explain why, when Richard met the young Ben, he "needs" Ben as the leader?
-What about Danielle's science team? In the past, before the purge, will we see her team arrive on the island, and the others take baby Alex? [of course this all depends on Ben existing on the island in the past, and off the island in the future...]
-If the timeline of the island "shifted", and Locke is gone-to the future?
If we follow the sequence we've just seen in the future[boy, am I confused now!], if Ben/Richard initiate the Purge after Locke left, and the events we just saw in Season 1-4 happen, in preparation for Jack, the O6, dead Locke to return to the island, it seems like the island timeline goes full-circle?
-In this scenario, the island doesn't WANT anyone to leave, once they are on the island, IF they are acceptable to Jacob/The island [meaning Dharma wasn't acceptable?], then the island wants them to remain or return, in order to fulfill their "destiny"?
Well, enough questions for now, and to reiterate, SO MANY QUESTIONS!
I feel as though I know something now, but it opens up so much more speculation.
I thought the finale was great; and the only disappointment for me was Locke in the coffin...but after thinking about it overnight, I wonder what happens when he returns to the island.
Juliet
Posted by: Juliet | May 30, 2008 at 06:44 AM
I loved the whole ride, and it all made sense to me except for two things, which will no doubt have me obsessing right through next season.
First, was Ben so obviously in the same jacket and same injury as he has 10 months later in Tunisia. Unlike our illustrious blogger, I am not a fan of time travel, so I was not happy to see this.
Second, was not so much Locke showing up dead three years after the crash, or even that he's using a pseud, but that all the Losties who know him are using the pseud too. Why?? You'd think that among themselves they'd call him Locke. I'm not a fan of soap opera twins either, but that's the first explanation I can think of why they'd all call him a different name.
The way I see it, Ben was so focused on scoring the spinal surgeon that he didn't realize who else was on the plane - his rival for the Jacob-Aaron position on the island (in this ep, he referred to emotional issues sometimes getting in the way of good decisions). During the course of things, he realized who Locke was, even tried to kill him, and eventually - esp after Alex died - figured fine, I'll pass it on to him.
But not without some condescension, particularly in the past few eps. And what we've seen is that clearly Locke is not ready for this role, whether he's destined to it or not. He has no plans, he has no knowledge, and he has yet to display real leadership skills either, let alone Ben's prowess at persuasion and manipulation.
So that's what I think has happened post rescue - the island is in chaos under Locke, and as Ben has been running around with Sayid avenging Alex, he knows that things are going badly. Three years later, he looks like he's ready to step back in. Why he needs the 06 to do that, I'm not sure.
As for Charlotte and Miles - LOVED it! I can't imagine we've seen the last of Daniel either (in spite of the boatload of red shirts), because I think the "solution" to the island rests with the special skills of all three of them.
Or maybe, just maybe, casting Daniel off to sea is saying that the physics side of things, including time and space travel, is not the issue here. It's more about history and anthropology and people and emotions, represented by Charlotte and Miles.
One last thing on time travel - note that the Orchid video said the rabbit moved ahead in time just a few milliseconds, and in the same space (not 10 months, and not to the other side of the world), and note also Ben's reaction to the idea of time travel - he positively sneered.
Posted by: Jenny | May 30, 2008 at 08:59 AM
One other revelation - and thanks for the heads up that the previous ep would be slightly different - is the identities of the other 3 who supposedly made it off the fake plane, but not to rescue: Boone, Libby and Charlie.
WHY THEM? I think it might be for us fans: Boone is a nod to season one (plus he's a hottie), Libby is the story still left untold (along with Danielle), and Charlie is the one most sadly missed by fans. But WHY did they have to be part of the story????
Posted by: Jenny | May 30, 2008 at 09:08 AM
Overall I liked the episode and the whole season. I did expect more of a cliffhanger ending. But I love the way it started, with Jack and Kate at the airport in the 'previously-on-Lost' "We have to go back!" scene from the S3 finale, and then the continuation of that scene (Kate stopping the car and backing up) to start the S4 finale. I really liked it. I agree that there was some stretching of credulity at times, as Bill said, like: Keamy's insurance policy, since Ben couldn't care less about the people on the boat; and like why did Richard and the others need Kate and Sayid to help free Ben, and the whole "What was the arrangement" business. I'm ready to watch it again now, because it's easy to miss stuff with just one viewing.
Just a couple of things to add to the long list of questions:
--On the helicopter trip back to the Kahana, they couldn't find the boat, and believed they should have reached it already, and then Hurley spots it BEHIND them. That means they passed over the Kahana's location, but it wasn't there, but it was there after they passed it. Maybe this has to do with the time difference issue, but it was a confusing way to present it.
--Juliet has always been a mystery, and I'm never sure I can believe that she's telling the truth, but I thought she was always anxious to leave the island. I don't buy her sudden altruism about getting everyone else off the island safely. Did she know something no one else knew, i.e., that the freighter was doomed? Maybe she just put together some hints (the doctor's body washing ashore, etc.) and she just didn't trust the safety of the whole evacuation thing. And maybe she now wants to stay for her own reasons, as a scientist, similar to Miles and Charlotte.
--Ben said whoever moves the island can never return. This implies the island has been moved at least once before. That begs the question of who moved it previously.
My theory is that everyone from 815 who got off the island must return because they all should have died in the plane crash. There were survivors because the island wanted Locke to survive, and in saving him others in his section of the plane were saved as well. Maybe the tailies were just lucky, i.e., they survived without the island's help, by sheer chance. Curiously, most of them are dead, so maybe the island saved them, too, but realized later that it was a mistake. How about Jacob's list? Maybe certain people were chosen to be kidnapped and 'saved' to serve the island, like Cindy and the children. The question still is: Why?
I guess we'll find out in Seasons 5 and 6. Thanks, Bill, for great insights and info on things like the name Jeremy Bentham, and for a great recap last night and all season long!
Posted by: Barry Smith | May 30, 2008 at 09:42 AM
Bill,
You started with:
>For sheer entertainment value, I thought this was a terrific episode.
Then closed with:
>I didn’t hate this episode or this season -- technically it was very well done -- but I expected a little more from a finale,
So was it a terrific letdown?
Personally, I think it was a top-notch action episode and the Locke Shock at the end was terrific. I could hardly sleep trying to figure out how he's dead and off the island.
This was clearly the best season (4-2-1-3 is my pecking order). The only problem with the finale was that it could never live up to "The Constant", which is probably the best hour or television I've ever seen.
The season as a whole was so stunning that the finale couldn't possibly live up to the rest of it.
Posted by: Sorry Charlie | May 30, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Questions, questions, questions ... always questions with this show. But first ...
The Good: (1) Ben + Locke's interaction in The Orchid w/ Ben loading up the "transporter" w/ metal objects and Locke staring at him all confused b/c of what he just saw on the videotape. Also Ben scolding Locke ... "John, when will you learn, I always have a plan." (2) The Charlotte revelation ... great stuff there. (3) Desmond being found by Penny and then his comment to Jack: "As long as I have Penny, I'll always be okay" ... that seems like foreshadowing to me. If Ben is successful in killing Penny does that mean that either (A) Des loses his "constant" and therefore will die (B) Des then becomes obsessed w/ finding and killing Ben or (C) Des decides to go to the island to help his friends b/c he has nothing left to live for in the real world. Interesting. (4) Hurley's comments like "nice playing w/ you Mr. Ecko" and "wow, you got big" to Walt. (5) fight scene w/ Sayid and Keamy.
The Bad: (1) Keamy's explanation about the heart monitor ... like people have said, why would Ben care? (2) Keamy surviving the gun shots ... ok, ok ... he had body armor on. But wouldn't Sayid check to see if he was dead? (3) The whole "turning the big wheel" thing by Ben ... a little contrived, no? (4) Locke being called Jeremy Bentham by the other 815ers ... like someone mentioned, whatever he was calling himself is one thing but why would they call him anything but Locke?
The Ugly: (1) The helicopter crash ... it was pretty vicious yet nobody had a scratch on them??? (2) Who comes up with the story about a typhoon washing up a supply boat? I doubt Jack would have figured that out ... he'd need some proof of a typhoon, right? So, does that mean that Oceanic is in on the story too? (3) The alternate endings that they shot had 2 others in the coffin ... Desmond and Sawyer. That doesn't make any sense at all so even if you were armed w/ that info you'd have to know that Locke had to be in the coffin. (4) the freighter explosion ... if everyone knew the boat "was gonna blow" then why wouldn't 10 people be trying for the copter? You would think that those on the copter would have to push some people off in order to take off. Seems like everyone else was quite content to just jump in the water. That was stupid.
Questions to answer:
1) Did Faraday get transported w/ the island? Was he close enough to shore to get "sucked in" to what looked like a worm hole?
2) Michael and Jin's fate? As far as the freighter explosion goes it could have been shot in a way so that the true sequence of events was not shown. For ex.: Michael is told by Christian "he can go" so he runs out of the room, grabs a vest and dives in the water just as the freighter explodes. Same w/ Jin .... so, my belief is that they are both alive. But more importantly, where are they? Sucked back to the island?
3) Sun's common interests w/ Widmore ... did she mean killing Ben? And does that mean she thinks Ben is the 2nd man responsible for his death? You would think she would blame Widmore but apparently not.
4) If Penny is killed what becomes of Des?
5) Will Locke be "re-incarnated" if he gets back to the island?
6) What someone mentioned before ... who else has moved the island? Otherwise, how would Ben know how to do that?
7) How will Jack convince the O6 to go back? No reason for Kate or Sayid to go back or want to go back ... at least Sun has a reason (Jin)and Hurley is being told by Charlie to go back.
Posted by: Brian is LOST | May 30, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Kate's reason to go back would be Sawyer, and whatever she thinks is best for Aaron.
Sayid's reason to go back is to help his friends as he has nobody left in the real world. Same reason he's been working for Ben.
Posted by: Jenny | May 30, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Great episode, And I have no problem with Locke in the box. I am very interested in the why and how he gets in that box... For instance Why are things bad on the island. Who's left to cause problems? I am quite excited.
I did like the mention of Libby, Boone and Charlie. It makes perfect sense to use them as back story as the O6 know they are definately dead, and that there is NO WAY they could pop up and refute their stories. It added more substance to their story that not all that survived the plan crash survived the aftermath.
I am also surprised nobody mentioned the new dharma commercial that was included right prior to the end of the show.
http://www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com/
Enjoy!
Posted by: GSH | May 30, 2008 at 12:12 PM
Great, Great Episode. Loved seeing Walt in the futre, but why does he not have to go back?
My theory on the Island move, based on what we know. Farady transported the mouse through time, and Desmond saw the mouse AFTER the transport, meaning time caught up to it. I believe the Island was moved into the future some time. Maybe say 10 months. Ben was somehow "thrown" to Tunisia, and the Island will reappear, like the mouse, 10 months in the future.
As for who turned the wheel earlier my guesses are eiteher Widmore (trying to find the Island, looks like he has never aged) or Abbadon (just a gut feeling).
I've watched it all twice already and will post more on my thoughts later.
Posted by: Chris | May 30, 2008 at 12:34 PM
I like the theory that the polar bears were trained to push the wheel. It is cold down there, takes a lot of strength, they had a training scheme for the bears, the pusher cannot come back (as opposed to sending a valued person), and you end up in the Sahara where we have seen a bear skeleton and Ben turn up.
Posted by: Paul | May 30, 2008 at 02:54 PM
FROM BILL: I could be mistaken, but I think that if you listen carefully to what Jack said at the press conference, he manages to discuss Boone, Libby and Charlie without actually lying. I think everything he says about the three of them and how they died is true. It's really just the context that is the lie.
Posted by: Bill Ervolino | May 30, 2008 at 03:21 PM
The phone call Kate receives in the middle of the night in her dream is a voice saying backward "You have to get back to the island before it's too late"
Posted by: Jeff Heimbuch | May 30, 2008 at 03:57 PM
But if you mention Libby, why not Ana Lucia? Boone but not Shannon? Not sure how it really benefits the public version to name any other "survivors."
Best line: "time traveling bunnies." It made me laugh.
Posted by: Rob | May 30, 2008 at 04:25 PM
Have yet to watch it a second time... I thought it was an enjoyable watch, but then started having similar questions after reading Bill's recap (and man, how do you write that so quickly yet so well?!).
Locke/Jeremy Bentham: Since Locke wasn't an O6 survivor, and everyone else "died" in the crash, they'd have to come up with an alias for Locke or explain how he survived. Could be coincidence, but thought it was amusing that "Ben" is in the name. Forget who said it (was it Kate?), but she wouldn't even say the name -- like it was Voldemort/he-who-must-not-be-named from Harry Potter.
Keamy: while I also agree Ben wouldn't (and didn't) care about the ship blowing up, if you're Keamy, wouldn't you try to throw anything out there to survive and/or trick Ben? So there was no downside to mentioning the ship would blow up if Keamy died, even if it wouldn't sway Ben.
Keamy, the Sequel: I can buy the body armor ruse. I'm not buying that the Others wouldn't ensure he was dead, or that not-dead-Keamy could just sneak off with nobody noticing him.
Christian; and is Claire Dead?: I'm not clear why it's Christian appearing to Locke and now Michael. Unless there's story lines yet to be revealed, don't think he'd have too much meaning to those characters. Since Claire is his daughter, it made more sense when he appeared to her. Speaking of which, since Claire appeared to Kate, did that confirm she died when the rocket hit the house?
Are Jin, Michael and or Dan Dead? great points Bill and posters. By not showing them die, the writers have options. We may not have seen the last of these characters. Dan seemed to sense something before the final boat trip -- did he know what would happen?
Charlotte: I'm guessing Miles must have been chatting with her parents or other Other/Dharma dead folks to know about her past?
Where is the show going?: I'm very curious to see if the off-island storylines take up a larger percentage of the show. Sayid's "rescue" of Hurley seems to be setting up a major plotline. And that would take our attenton away from the island, which could allow the island society to fall apart (as suggested on the blog) without us watching, and then the O6 return to a much different island.
Posted by: Mike | May 30, 2008 at 06:07 PM
Just curious about the jacket Ben wears in the icy cave to move the island. On the jacket is the name: HALLIWELL. Does this ring a bell with anyone? I could swear I heard that name mentioned somewhere before in one of the espisodes (yes, I know it's the last name of one of the Spice Girls).
Posted by: nina26best | May 30, 2008 at 10:11 PM
just googled Halliwell and Casimir Effect, and some items pop up: worm hole travel, Steven Hawking, and lots of science babble that I am too tired at the moment to sift through.
Posted by: nina26best | May 30, 2008 at 10:25 PM
FROM BILL: I didn't look at the jacket in this episode, but previously Ben turned up wearing the HALLIWAX jumpsuit which is worn by the narrator of the orchid video. In his first incarnation (in the swan video), he was Dr. Marvin Candle. We saw him again in the Pearl video as Mark Wickmund. All names are puns of candle.
Posted by: Bill Ervolino | May 30, 2008 at 11:40 PM
It's the same jacket. When Ben moves the island, he is transported to the Sahara Desert, 9 or so months into the future, where we saw him in the flashforward
Also, does anyone else think that Sun and Michael slept together? When she told him she was pregnant, he gave her a look...to me, it just seemed like something happened between them...I know in one of the online mobisodes they almost kissed...but could it have lead to something more?
Posted by: Jeff Heimbuch | May 30, 2008 at 11:56 PM
Just got around to watching it a second time: One of the all-time great episodes, period. 10+. Perfect.
Posted by: Sorry Charlie | May 31, 2008 at 01:37 AM
Keamy- I figured he waited until the copter left before he went to the Orchid, rather than walking off unnoticed?
Not sure what the deal was with Sun telling Michael she is pregnant? Seems like there was a pause there, but I guess I was thinking she was telling him that she needed to leave the island [or die], not that something was between them...
The parka Ben was wearing had the name Halliwax on it, which was the same as the one he had on in the desert- I think they were showing us that where Ben ends up is the ff we saw, plus his arm was hurt from his fall down the ladder.
Actually, I'm impressed with the attention to detail for the most part. [Yes, I know they miss a detail here and there- but imagine doing the continuity for a plot such as this!]
Each event seems to connect to another event. It really makes me listen to the dialog.
For instance- Daniel was VERY concerned about the second protocol...
-How did he know it?
-The Orchid sketch in his book- was Daniel on the island in the past? [We already know he wrote in the journal "Desmond Hume is my Constant"] Daniel seems to have memory loss, or something...but once hearing the Orchid mentioned, appears to know what it means.
[I am wondering if he was on the island and transported back in time to the time when Desmond visited him at the college?]
We've only seen the island "move" [and the result of Ben transporting 10 mos into the future], and not persons from the island going back and forth from the island to the mainland/other countries...
Did Ben use a portal to travel [with passports] OR was there a normal way off the island [coordinates- using sub, boat, etc]??
We also don't know WHEN or WHERE the island moved to [yet]. We saw Ben go to Oct 2005, but did the island go to that time, or to a time in the past?
Posted by: Juliet | May 31, 2008 at 05:46 AM
Watched it a second time... still held up well.
I think Sun and Widmore's "common interest" is Ben. If Locke/Jeremy visited all the survivors, then he probably visited Sun. He could have mentioned how Ben killed Keamy despite the heart rate monitor trigger, and that's what blew up the freighter and killed Jin (if he's actually dead). Sun may want to get her revenge on Ben, and therefore decides to ally with Widmore. This could also cause a rift among the 06, since Sayid is working with Ben and it looks like Jack is going to side with him as well. It might also explain why nobody shows up to Jin's grave except for Sun & Hurley.
Corrections to my earlier post (helps to view a second time!): don't think Dan is dead, just moved with the island, and Sayid was the one who wouldn't say John Locke (rather than Bentham) since he believes they're being watched/followed and maybe the asylum is bugged. I mistakenly thought it was Kate who didn't want anyone to say the name.
Funny bit: the C4 explosives on the ship said "C4 Explosives!" I've never seen real-life explosives but I doubt they have little exclamation points on them.
Posted by: Mike | May 31, 2008 at 09:05 AM
- I think Penny funded Sun’s purchase of the stock. I think this is one of the things discussed in the off-camera discussion that Jack asked for after Penny’s boat came to the rescue. (It’s unlikely that the Oceanic settlements plus Hurley’s lottery winnings would have been enough.)
- Desmond’s vision for Charlie called for Aaron AND Claire to get off the island. Has this not happened yet?
- Put together two ideas mentioned at various places: Charlotte is Annie and Ben’s daughter; Penny is Annie and Charles Widmore’s daughter. (Maybe Charlotte’s other sister was Danielle? –Perhaps Annie and Hanso’s daughter.)
- Who ordered watch the clinic in which Hurley is living and where did Abadon want to take him?
- What can the Oceanic Six plus Locke (dead) bring of value to the island? Why are all 7 necessary? If Aaron is the “special” one, isn’t he enough? Jack, Kate, and Sayid are not “special” — Jack wasn’t even on Jacob’s list….
I’m sure I’m missing what’s really important — Geronimo Jackson.
About convincting Kate to return-- I think the key "person" may be Claire, who has already begun to work on Kate's mind (albeit sort of backwards). There may be something regarding Aaron, one of the special children, that is relevant. Maybe Aaron does something himself that affects Kate, or his special nature becomes pivotal. Perhaps Walt gets involved. I thin-k several of the off-island special kids, perhaps besides Walt and Aaron, Sun's new daughter? Maybe Penny's child (coming?).
Indeed, as I mentioned above, I think that Penny is the person assisting Sun's new corporate moves. I don't think Penny is likely to hide to avoid Ben's attacks--she seems to be a "take-charge" type of person. Meanwhile, if Daniel Faraday makes it back to the island, as some are suggesting/predicting, he and his Constant, Desmond, may be able to communicate even from different time dimensions, to support the Penny/Sun cabal. Indeed, I think the series is going to move from a Daddy-centric set of drivers to more Mommy-centric ones -- with key players including Annie, Penny, Sun, Charlotte, Claire, and Jack's mom. Maybe even Rousseau.
Posted by: Bob | June 01, 2008 at 09:49 AM
You might be right about Penny helping Sun.
If Paik and Widmore were working together, Sun may be "playing" Widmore in that scene
Posted by: Juliet | June 01, 2008 at 03:50 PM
I have to say the only thing I didn't like about the finale was Locke in the coffin. But it does set us up to wonder just what happens after the 6 leave. And why does the island let him die? The other thing that bothered me was that Locke in the coffin didn't have the scar over his eye. It could have just been the funeral make-up, but I checked some other lost sites that mentioned this. One said that the song playing on Jack's radio when he got to the funeral home was "Gouge Away" by the Pixies. Is this a clue or are the writers just messing with us. Some think it ties into the "bad twin" and cloning theories, but I'm not a big fan of those. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Posted by: Michelle | June 01, 2008 at 10:33 PM