THE MVP Debate
The National League MVP results were announced this afternoon with Albert Pujols taking his second MVP award. I had a vote this season and I went another way - the way that today's stat guru's will rip me for - and picked Ryan Howard for the top spot.
I am getting old, but I am open to the new stats and even push for more changes (like why doesn't a guy get a sacrifice fly when he clearly goes to right field and moves someone from second to third base with no out?). I checked every statistical permutation and Pujols clearly is the statistical leader offensively - and he's better than Howard defensively. But this is not a most outstanding play award.
From the time I began trying to figure this vote with about two months remaining in the season the one thing I held to, a point that I was going to adhere to if I could, was that the team had to be a winner. Pujols said it himself when the Cards made the playoffs and the Phillies didn't in 2006 and he wondered aloud how Howard could get the award without making the postseason. I agreed with him then and I agree now.
Unless the performance is so extreme that it can't be ignored - the crazy Barry Bonds seasons for example - I think a player should help his team to win or you can revert to the argument of, "Could they have finished fourth without him?"
So I voted Howard first and my reasoning was that my preference was to find someone from the Phillies, Cubs, Dodgers or Brewers for the top spot. While his numbers can be picked apart - although 146 RBI, 105 runs and a record-setting performance in September are pretty good stats to put out in his behalf - it was more than numbers. I talked to baseball people and they agreed with what I saw when the Mets played the Phillies - like Pujols, his impact was not nearly just about his own at-bat. You had to plan for innings to avoid him. And he seemed to come up big every time he had to down the stretch.
It was a tough year to come up with a winner. I told some people I spoke to about this that I felt like I had 10 second-place candidates. The split seasons by Carlos Delgado and Manny Ramirez, not to mention CC Sabathia, affected my votes on them. As much as David Wright's numbers impress, watching the team on a daily basis I thought it was clearly Delgado who carried them over the final four months of the season.
My ballot went like this: 1. Howard, 2. Pujols, 3. Delgado, 4. Ramirez, 5. Braun, 6. Santana, 7. Sabathia, 8. Lidge, 9. A. Ramirez, 10. H. Ramirez.
This is the final vote totals from the entire panel:
I can't get it to fit exactly - or at all, so here's the link.
| Player | Club | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th | 7th | 8th | 9th | 10th | Points |
| Albert Pujols | St. Louis Cardinals | 18 | 10 | 2 | 1 | — | — | 1 | — | — | — | 369 |
| Ryan Howard | Philadelphia Phillies | 12 | 8 | 6 | — | 1 | 1 | 2 | — | — | 1 | 308 |
| Ryan Braun | Milwaukee Brewers | — | 2 | 3 | 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 139 |
| Manny Ramirez | Los Angeles Dodgers | — | 2 | 4 | 7 | 2 | 3 | 2 | — | 1 | 2 | 138 |
| Lance Berkman | Houston Astros | — | 2 | 4 | 4 | 1 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 126 |
| CC Sabathia | Milwaukee Brewers | — | 4 | 5 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 | — | 1 | 2 | 121 |
| David Wright | New York Mets | — | 2 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 5 | 2 | 1 | 115 |
| Brad Lidge | Philadelphia Phillies | 2 | — | 2 | — | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 104 |
| Carlos Delgado | New York Mets | — | — | 5 | 1 | 2 | 5 | — | 2 | 3 | — | 96 |
| Aramis Ramirez | Chicago Cubs | — | — | — | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 66 |
| Hanley Ramirez | Florida Marlins | — | — | — | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 5 | 55 |
| Chipper Jones | Atlanta Braves | — | 1 | — | — | — | 2 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 44 |
| Geovany Soto | Chicago Cubs | — | — | — | 3 | 1 | — | 3 | — | 1 | — | 41 |
| Player | Club | 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th | 6th | 7th | 8th | 9th | 10th | Points |
| Johan Santana | New York Mets | — | 1 | — | 1 | — | 1 | 1 | — | 2 | 1 | 30 |
| Chase Utley | Philadelphia Phillies | — | — | — | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | — | 3 | 2 | 30 |
| Ryan Ludwick | St. Louis Cardinals | — | — | — | — | — | — | 1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 17 |
| Brandon Webb | Arizona Diamondbacks | — | — | — | — | 2 | — | — | — | 1 | — | 14 |
| Adrian Gonzalez | San Diego Padres | — | — | — | — | — | — | 1 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 13 |
| Matt Holliday | Colorado Rockies | — | — | — | — | — | 1 | 1 | 1 | — | 1 | 13 |
| Prince Fielder | Milwaukee Brewers | — | — | — | — | — | 1 | — | 1 | 1 | 1 | 11 |
| Derrek Lee | Chicago Cubs | — | — | — | — | 1 | — | 1 | — | — | — | 10 |
| Carlos Beltran | New York Mets | — | — | — | — | 1 | — | — | 1 | — | 1 | 10 |
| Tim Lincecum | San Francisco Giants | — | — | — | — | — | 1 | — | — | 1 | 2 | 9 |
| Jose Reyes | New York Mets | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | 1 | — | — | 3 |
| Jose Valverde | Houston Astros | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | 1 | — | — | 3 |
| Stephen Drew | Arizona Diamondbacks | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | 1 | — | 2 |
| Nate McClouth | Pittsburgh Pirates | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | — | 1 | 1 |
You're terrible, Popper.
Ryan Braun? Delgado? Lidge?
Put down the fucking crack pipe.
Posted by: Metropolitans | 11/17/2008 at 08:13 PM
Um, thanks for the constructive criticism.
Posted by: Steve Popper | 11/17/2008 at 08:22 PM
If only Pujols could have willed the pitchers on his team to not suck. That's the sign of a true MVP.
And Delgado third? He wasn't even the third best player on his own team. I don't care what he did the second half, he f'ing blew for the first 3 months of the season. One more win in April would have been just as good as one in September.
Posted by: tm | 11/18/2008 at 03:56 PM
Thanks for sharing your vote - that was cool to see.
I definitely think Pujols deserved it. Just as Manny Ramirez may not get enough votes because he didn't play for the Dodgers all year - I'd have the same arguement that Delgado didn't play all year for the Mets. I can't forget about those first couple of months.
Posted by: JRJ | 11/21/2008 at 10:45 AM
Thanks for a comment finally that wasn't ripping me! As I explained to a friend who is a huge sabermetrics believer, sometimes you get around a team and you feel something different than what the numbers tell you.
With the Mets this year for example, even though Wright's numbers jump out, it seemed clear even to the players that Delgado was the team's MVP - and really from the time that they made their run after Willie's departure.
As far as Manny, the problem I had with him at the top was not just the half-season, but also the character issues - part of the description of the parameters we receive mentions loyalty and character and that's hard to jibe with his Red Sox departure. Thanks again.
Posted by: Steve Popper | 11/21/2008 at 12:40 PM
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Posted by: perry | 01/02/2009 at 11:15 PM