Sun Burned

The Nets would have had to play near-perfect, would have had to shut down Amare Stoudemire, Jason Kidd would have had to match Steve Nash and Vince Carter would have had to look like Carter from 2005 or 2006 if they were to have any chance of ending the Suns' 13-year hex over them in Phoenix.

None happened and as a result the Nets were embarrassed 116-92 last night in Phoenix.

You knew this would be a tough one, especially after the overtime loss to the Clippers to start the trip Saturday. But what struck us from our comfy couch - we’re not there yet as we will meet them later on the trip – was how the Nets were outhustled and outworked.

The offensive rebounds, the run outs, the late rotations on threes – every aspect that requires hustle and work the Nets didn’t meet the Suns. Good teams make those plays and the Nets, as we all know, are not a good team.

They were getting there a few weeks ago, but they’ve definitely taken steps backward. The clincher for me was the fourth quarter.

For those not glued to the Giants game, the Suns were up 17 and Stoudemire and Shawn Marion were all over the offensive boards. Where were the Nets?

Some of you will say it’s because coach Lawrence Frank went with a smaller lineup. No matter, the Nets have to box out and get those rebounds, or at least try for them. Didn’t see enough of that.

The numbers tell the story – 17-5 on the offensive boards. Yes, the Suns took more shots and as a result missed more shots, but they went after it. They went to the boards. They beat the Nets where it counted.

We’re not going to bury Vince here because you guys do plenty of that, but they need more than 10 points from him, more than 13 shots, more than four in the second half.

You can understand why the Nets are fielding/making offers - and not just for Carter. They have to continue to listen/be proactive because this can’t continue without some faces changing places. We said this earlier in the season, but there was time still to turn things around.

After the Kings’ game Tuesday, the Nets are at the midpoint and will be either 19-22 or 18-23. They were supposed to be better, much better.

It can’t continue much longer, especially if they’re being outworked and not playing with the requisite passion and energy. Frank deserves some blame for that, but the Nets' overall play lately is an indictment on everyone.

Comments

[Mr. Dollar Bills]

Carter and Lawrence Frank need to be buried together.

[No love 4 snitches]

frank and rj need to go.

[Adam.y]

Humiliating loss.
Our so called franchise player Vince scored 10 measly points.
Vince is the epitomy of the worst type of players ones that lack a heart.
He fooled us all last year when we thought he actually cared about the franchise but this year exposed him for what he really is:
A guy that's just there to make some money(make that a lot of money) and give a 50% effort at best.
If possible trade talks couldnt motivate him nothing will.
Trade him for whatever you can get 5 years of this trash thats only gonna get worse is gonna mess up this franchise hard.

Im not gonna even complain about Frank because that polititian will never get canned so its not even worth to lash out at him.

[TJ]

Nets were outhustled and outworked, and outcoached. Frank is a player's coach, but the time has come to make a change.

[mjs]

With each game this looks more hopeless. More than the performance, the effort and lack of competitiveness stands out - embarrassing.

I still prefer to wait until the offseason in hopes of more value on a trade, but something needs to change.

www.njnetscast.com

[Steven]

Great game Vince! I was hoping for you to bury him Al, I mean, didn't he call himself out last week? What a joke...

[Adam.y]

Ok my last post was a bit harsh I was quite blinded by rage and frustration.
Frank has to understand that this new system isnt working, WE have to go back to running plays for Vince in the halfcourt it worked great in past years why stop it?
Before we start with any trades and talks and whatever fire Frank ASAP, his failure to manage this team has been documented all season long,(if he wasnt such a great polititian he wouldnt have been here for so long btw), to see if some one can get them to play well together(try Kiki please Im begging ya),

If that doesnt work the only sulotion is to get Gasol here are a few options:

Option 1-Marcus,Sean,Jamal and Collins.
We go 100% into win now mode and offer the Williams duo along with the future of this franchise in order to be super competitive for the next 4-5 years, Memphis finally commits to rebuilding this is very likley to get a positive answer from Memphis, the 2 big expirings dont hurt either
As they say in this league if youre not contending or rebuilding youre nowhere.

Option 2-Nenad,Mag’s,Collins,
Just a whole bunch of expiring contracts and or a future star in Nenad.

Option 3-RJ and Sean
Memphis gets a stud and stays semi competitive with RJ.

[ajsmith]

If it really was the owner who forced the basketball side to go five years for Vince, then he deserves to head into Brooklyn with a mess. If it was the Basketball guys' decision, then the owner deserves better. Either way, how could you not see at the time that locking up major money and years in VC was going to hamstring the franchise and infect the roster with complacency?

Thanks guys, now there's not a single watchable NBA team in the NYC market, and won't be for years.

[Isaac]

AJ- how can you say Ratner DESERVES anything regardless of what foolishness he may have added to the re-signing of the joke that is Wince Carter. The man is stealing the team away from loyal NEW JERSEY Nets fans like us without a clue as to how to run a professional sports franchise. All he cares about is the billions of dollars that will be further lining the pockets of the 20 dollar khakis he wears to the games. He is a disgrace and it's obvious other than Rod Thorn (who may not have enough clout at this point, that our franchise is in very bad hands from top to bottom. We have the equivalent of a high line high school coach for pete's sake!

[Adam.y]

Thorn said" And as for the lack of a team identity, he insists that it is starting to form, and that its delay isn't Lawrence Frank's fault. "

Bah as much as Im a fan of this team I really feel bad for Kidd, he deserves to play for a contender not a team that has everything it can possibly want and yet insists to hold itself back by keeping a god awful high school level coach(who still has his job only because he's a geniuss polititian).

And just so you guys know JO is probably out for the season so our only real trade solution is to get Paul Gasol.

[me]

It is really sad whats happened to this team. Obviously it's childish to give all the blame on one shoulder, but obviously one person is really making it impossible for us. Lawrence Frank. It seems obvious that alot of problems that we are seeing stem from the first problem that is Lawrence Frank. Motivation, Identity, Passion...these are things that a coach MUST be able to give to his team. And these are all missing from this team. After that we can start talking about tactical mistakes and coaching errors. But like we all know, Frank isn't going anywhere, I think someone has a crush on him in management.

The really sad thing is, that we'll never know if this team could have been a true team, and how good they could have been, were they given a coach they deserved, and a coach that matched the talent and potential of this team.

[Greg]

Are you guys kidding me? Let's bash VC a little more. Has anyone ever thought about this from his standpoint. He's been asked, under Frank, to basically take a backseat to this offense. He's been more than willing. Rarely does the team LOOK for him to give him a chance, he's stuck in the corner more often than not, yet when they pass him the ball with 5 seconds remaining you expect him to save the day. Basketball, especially shooting, is all about rhythm. You can't expect him to make his shots when he only gets 12 or so a game lately -- when many of those shots are rushed and not in rhythm. Frank needs to swallow his pride, put the ball in the hands of his go-to player and quit looking for RJ to be something he's not. End of story. Surround VC with a consistent shooter, and a threat at PF/C who can hit the open 17ft jumper (something we've lacked since Krstic went out) and watch how the offense flows. VC finds the open man, is a far superior passer than RJ, and can create his own shot or provide an open shot for another player -- RJ rarely does any of those things. Yet we want to deal VC why? Because RJ "runs the fastbreak more" ... what else exactly does RJ do? How often do you run a fastbreak in an NBA game, especially in the playoffs? Half-court execution. VC is one of the best, when given the ball. That's what is going to give you a shot night in and night out.

[mark]

i agree with all that has been said, and what is so frustrating is that VC played great the 1st year and a half he was here,and he had great stats last year, but i'm afraid to admit it, he's just not a big time clutch player, neither is Rj. Time for them both to go via trades and start the rebuilding around the bigs. Sorry JKidd, you should've gone to SA when you had the chance. As hard as you play, you don't deserve this. oh and LFrank has got to go ASAP!

[paulvard]

One last resort on what to do with Carter is to put him with the second group in the beginning so that Wright can guard opposing shooting guard. He seems to play better with the second team in the beginning then let all of them finish the game. Also Frank does not seem to know how to coach the two rookies.

[paulvard]

One last resort on what to do with Carter is to put him with the second group in the beginning so that Wright can guard opposing shooting guard. He seems to play better with the second team in the beginning then let all of them finish the game. Also Frank does not seem to know how to coach the two rookies.

[KJV]

Greg, I have a question for you. Do you even know anything about basketball? Maybe you do, but you are just a die hard VC fan boy.

[Greg]

Anything about basketball? Excuse me buddy. I was the starting PG for every team I played, which includes middle school and high school. I know a lot about the game, not including the 20 years I've watched NBA basketball. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see Frank's offense is predictable, stagnant and isn't working. What do we rank in FG%, PPG, 3P%? Last in almost every category. We have TWO of the top scorers in the league on our team, yet we rank that low in these categories? What do you think the problem is? Lack of production from PF/C for awhile with Collins/Allen. Now it's inability to put the ball in the hoop because our lack of bench production, the coach is not putting the players in the right positions to succeed, plain and simple. Maybe YOU should back up your comments, instead of calling someone else out. I've proved my points, stats don't lie. Take a look. VC is a PROVEN scorer EVERY year when given the opportunity and the offense revolves around him. Why has his production dropped in NJ? New system, which puts VC on the backburner, blame falls on L. Frank. RJ's numbers are slowly decreasing from his awesome start, which I predicted on many forums such as realgm, VCO, this blog... yet Frank continues to go to him when VC or anyone else for that matter has the hot hand. Shall I go on? Probably not, since you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Steven]

If RJ's numbers are slowly decreasing, what are you calling Vince's? You have to be blind to see that he's playing with no heart. He doesn't care out there.

And I'm glad I know that you started PG in middle school, you know a heck of a lot more about basketball than I do because of that!

[Greg]

Well leading a team, for 6 straight years, winning 2 championships and helping my team go to state in High School, yet I know nothing about basketball?

You just proved my point by not backing up anything you said, only saying VC's numbers have declined. Have you noticed VC's numbers have actually increased over the last 10-15 games? His PPG average is better than what it was in, say November-December. I acknowledged the fact VC's production has dropped, but I've told you why. It's the offense he's in that Frank has no clue how to run -- Frank needs to go. Probably more than 90% of the fans here would agree. Until you post something of some substance I'd think you'd need to stick to reading posts and not writing them and especially refrain from calling someone else out when you have nothing to back up your posts.

[Al Iannazzone]

The reason I said here that we're not going to bury Vince is because I knew you guys would.
But he has been a part of the problem. So has everyone else - Kidd, Jefferson, Frank, even the young guys. You just expect more out of Kidd, Carter and Jefferson than everyone else.
Right now, as you all would agree, Carter isn't being aggressive enough. I think he needs to shoot more and have the offense run through him more.

[Greg]

With all due respect Al, Carter doesn't call the plays. I agree that he needs to shoot more and have the ball run through him, but he's not the one calling the shots. Which is what my point was in the previous posts. Frank has gone away from VC more this year and you can see what it has done. It's not that he's being less productive, it's that the offense has shied away from him and RJ is getting the majority of the touches. We can all see where that has put us. When VC does get a shot, it's either rushed, out of rhythm, or he hasn't gotten a consistent look -- all of us should know it's about having a rhythm when shooting. How can you expect him to make his shots when he's only getting 12 or so looks a game. Maybe he should be more like RJ and not look to pass as much and be more selfish. That's asking him to do too much though, because VC is an unselfish player. Just my opinion. I just do not understand how Frank is not getting ANY heat from management thus far, clearly it's not working out. I think he's lost his team.

[Steve]

All this talk about who is at fault is ridiculous. They are all at fault. From management down to the last guy on the bench. This team is not good because the players do not compliment each other to make a good team. They do not do any one thing well and do more things poorly. I am not sure Frank is the problem. He has do deal with who he has.

The problem with this team is that they have no personality. Are they a defensive team? Definitely not though Frank wants them to be because that wins championships. But they cannot stop a team man to man and their rotations are too slow as a team defense which leaves easy penetration and open jumpers especially from the arc. Vince is especially poor on the defensive end. He is poor man to man and he just does not rotate fast enough. And this counters any easy fast break offense that they used to get.

Offensively, they have no cohesiveness there either. The problems start with Vince not being a compliment to Kidd as he doesn’t get out on the break consistently. He has never run the court well since he arrived here. Kidd needs players that run the court well and want to run the court well. If you don’t have that, Kidd’s effectiveness is diminished. It’s like have a great quarterback but he has good receivers to throw it to. Another major problem is no interior scoring threat to loosen up the perimeter. Other teams get up on our shooters because they do not have to sag down low to prevent easy buckets from a big guy. As a matter of fact, we should put Vince down low as he is probably our best low post player. As for giving the ball to Vince more to shoot, well that did not work well in the Cleveland series last year. You can double team him and take away easy lanes to the basket from him and he will end up shooting 5 for 20. As for the Nets being a supposedly good perimeter team with the big three, they are not. They, starters or bench players, don’t shoot the ball well enough to be a perimeter team. Not one of them is consistent enough. Some cannot even shoot free throws as well as high school players.

Kidd needs tougher defensive players that can get out on the run. VC needs to play with a dominant inside scorer that he can play off of to get free jump shots or slash to the basket. Jefferson is a good compliment to Kidd but is asked to be more of a go to guy which he is not. The young guys, Boone and S. Williams are good in the run game but are too much like each other. Neither one has much inside game and by the time they find one, Kidd will be ready to retire. Not much help from the bench as they are all very inconsistent. If you cannot find that one or two other players to get the mix better, it is time to trade for draft picks, young players, and rebuild for the move to Brooklyn.

[Greg]

Agree 100% with almost everything you said. However, Frank is the main problem with all of this. If you want reasons go read all the posts on www.firefrank.com

I don't think anyone thinks Williams and Boone are the starters, one or the other will likely get moved to the bench if we can make a move to acquire that big man we lack. Boone has really surprised me with his play, so has Williams, but I agree they are very similar. It's good to have that kind of depth, but not with both starting.

Lastly, VC and Kidd CAN compliment each other well. They did it the first year and a half when VC was here. The focus was VC on offense, and the Nets were playing their best ball with basically this same roster. Frank is trying to make RJ a go-to guy and he is NOT that. Agree with you there. I just think many people are overlooking the lack of touches VC is getting these days. Sure he can be more aggressive WHEN he does get touches, but that's hard to do stuck in the corner and having to bail out a stagnant offense with 5-8 seconds left.

Bottom line we need a big who can be a threat on offense. We need a shooter (we miss House) who can provide that spark off the bench and hit the open shot when a player finds them. Overall, we need better TEAM defense. Inconsistencies overall throughout the team, and they start at the top with Frank, in my opinion.

[Barry From Brooklyn]

How do we start to rebuild? Do we continue to try and build around Kidd. Or just scrap the whole bunch. First, The coach has to go. He's not getting results,period. I would like to see what another coach could do with this group before we break it up. But something HAS to be done. IMMEDIATELY !!!!